In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Peter Addy, Licensed Mental Health Counselor out of Washington. In the show, they talk about the research and therapeutic use of Salvia.

3 Key Points:

1. Salvinorin A is the active molecule that causes the psychedelic experiential reports, although there are at least a dozen unique compounds in the Salvia plant.
2. In a recreational setting, Salvia is usually smoked, but in the Mazatec culture, they do not smoke it, they use a sublingual method.
3. The clinical applications of Salvia are tricky right now. It's not easy to get funding for psychedelic research.

Support the show

• Patreon
• Leave us a review on iTunes
• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
• Join our Facebook group - Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community.

Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

About Peter

• Peter helped found the Yale Psychedelic Speaker Series
  • The main goal was to normalize talking about psychedelic research as research
• Peter joined the pharmacology lab for his post doctoral research on Salvia
  • The team was mainly studying THC but were also studying Ketamine
  • He wanted to bring in MDMA and Psilocybin research
• Peter attended The Institute of Transpersonal Psychology
  • As a psychologist, Peter focused heavily on feedback and experience

Transpersonal Psychology

• It all started when Peter stumbled across a dusty book in the library as a Freshman, States of Consciousness by Charles Tart
  The book talked a lot about meditation
• Joe says he has been practicing non-drug transpersonal states (breathwork) for years
• You can have a psychedelic experience without drugs, and you can also take psychedelics and not have the psychedelic experience at all, it's not about the drug
  • “Everyone has an innate desire towards transcending who they are, moving towards wholeness, and personal and societal transformation” - Peter
• “If I'm kind, then people around me are more likely to be kind, it's about the transformation of groups and societies than about having a cool trick” - Peter

Salvia

• “Psychedelic Assisted Psychotherapy is proven to do a lot of really good things, but it's not the only way and it's not necessarily the right way. There are wrong ways to do it, but not one culture owns this experience.” - Peter
• "Having a healthy critique of science in the modern world is helpful because its a series of provisional truths, it's a good tool to get closer to objective reality, but its not perfect, it's all we have so far" - Joe
• Peter says that art is an amazing tool as well
  • Verbal language is limiting, he has seen images that can convey an experience way better than words can
• Salvinorin A is the active molecule that causes the psychedelic experiential reports
  • There are at least a dozen unique compounds in the Salvia plant
• There was going to be a bill to make Salvia illegal in 2008 or 2009
  • Now it's just illegal for minors

Salvia Study

• Peter recruited 30 people who had all used psychedelics
• He used a controlled set, setting and intention
• He used either a Salvia extract or just the unadulterated leaf
  • No one in the real world is using Salvinorin A, they are smoking the leaf or using extracts of the leaf
• The participants smoked it when they desired, Peter was not enforcing the smoking
  • It was a very relaxed setting
• Once the participants smoked, they then had an experience for 10 minutes, and then he came together with them and just listened to their experience
  • 2 people got up and moved, the rest just sat there in the experience
• Interoception (the inner feelings of your body) is the internal form of proprioception (the feeling of your body in space)
• Every time you smoke something it is going to hit you quickly and be over quickly
  • By the time you realize what's going on in a Salvia experience, you're already on your way out
  • In the Mazatec culture, they do not smoke it, they use a sublingual method

Advice

• The clinical applications of Salvia are tricky right now
• It's not easy to get funding for psychedelic research
  • Peter says if you do get funding, attach it to something else
  • MDMA research didn't just begin to ‘see what it could help’, PTSD sucks, and there isn't a whole lot that works to treat it, but MDMA does and it just happens to be a type of psychedelic

Links

Website

About Peter

Peter is both a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Washington and a Licensed Professional Counselor in Oregon. He earned a PhD in Clinical Psychology from Sofia University in 2011, including certification in biofeedback and Process Oriented Psychodrama. There, he studied non-ordinary states of consciousness, holistic and all-encompassing views of a person, and ways that these experiences can transform a person and society. Peter then engaged in post-degree specialty training at Danville State Hospital, Yale University School of Medicine, and the Connecticut Mental Health Center. As faculty at Yale University he engaged in research and training. Some of his clinical training is in mindfulness-based therapies, Motivational Interviewing, and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. He also discovered a passion for data management and security which he brings with him to his online therapy practice.

In today’s episode, Joe visits Naropa in Boulder, CO to sit down with Rafael Lancelotta and Alan Kooi Davis. Alan is a Clinical Psychology Professor at Ohio State and Rafael is a legal Psychedelic Therapist operating out of Innate Path in Colorado.

3 Key Points:

1. Facilitation is a huge problem in the 5-MEO-DMT space. Some people take it without the intention of working on it afterward, they are commonly given too much, and also in a poor context. This recipe of poor facilitation and guidance leads to a lot of challenging experiences and a lot of integration work.
2. The feeling of oneness typically arises when taking 5-MEO-DMT. It can be great for some, but for others, it can be extremely overwhelming and harmful when not provided the correct intention, context and tools to work through it.
3. Privilege is a huge issue in the psychedelic space. The goal in this space is to make everyone’s voice heard, not just those of privilege.

Support the show

• Patreon
• Leave us a review on iTunes
• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
• Join our Facebook group - Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community.

Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

Rafael

• Rafael studied Mental Health Counseling at the University of Wyoming
• He is currently at Innate Path in Lakewood, CO doing Ketamine and Cannabis assisted Psychotherapy

Alan

• Alan is on the Faculty at John’s Hopkins
• He is a Clinical Psychologist
• He is currently doing clinical research on psychoactive substances

5-MEO-DMT

• It is a psychoactive substance that comes from the Sonoran Desert Toad
• It's a fast acting and powerful psychedelic substance that is challenging to predict
  • Some have amazing, beautiful and transcendent experiences, but it also has the ability to bring up challenging and dark things to deal with
• It isn't as visual as other psychedelics, it has to deal a lot more with consciousness itself
• “It may feel like being shot right into the center of love, or the center of the universe” - Alan
• DMT can be more visual, while 5-MEO-DMT can be more spiritual, not that they can’t dip into each other

5-MEO-DMT Harms

• Alan did a talk on 5-MEO-DMT at Horizons
• There are a lot of harms when using 5-MEO-DMT
• Both Alan and Rafael have been contacted numerous times about looking for facilitators or about trying to integrate massive and difficult experiences
• An ego death, in the right context, can be transformative, but in the wrong context, can be extremely harmful.
• The facilitators are the problem
  • If the facilitators are delivering the medicine in a shamanic practice, and the people using it are coming from a Western mindset, then with goals misaligned, there can be some major issues
  • People have these grand, god-like experiences when using psychedelics, then feel like they need to become shamans and facilitate these experiences for others and have literally no clue or education on how to properly care for these people using the Toad
• Joe says facilitators commonly overdose their users because the toad venom is hard to predict potency
• Alan says that the fear response needs to be initiated when extracting the venom from the toad
  • He thinks it can come up as a huge problem when using 5-MEO-DMT from a fear-stricken animal
  • Alan says there is a lot of reports of feeling abducted by aliens, and it could be related to the fear response from the toad being hunted for its venom
  • It's a similar concept to the traumatization of any other animal by the way it is killed and then eating the meat of that traumatized animal
• On average, there is roughly 10-20% of 5-MEO-DMT in the venom

Oneness

• When someone becomes ‘one’ with everything, it takes a lot of detailed integration
  • When someone becomes ‘one’ with everything, that would also mean that they experience the suffering of everything around them
• When the rational mind comes back online, if the person does not decide to take action, it can be seriously overwhelming to feel that oneness
  • Integration has part to do with the experience but then the other part is everything before it, our family, relationships, job, our personality, etc.
  • “Yeah its cool that we are one with the universe, but so is everything else” - Rafael

Power and Privilege

• Privilege means having a voice, but it also means position in society, gender, race etc
• In psychedelics, for so long, it has been so hard to find a voice
  • But with this psychedelic renaissance, it has become so much easier to speak up about psychedelic use, research, etc
• The people within the scientific community get put on a pedestal to speak about psychedelic research
• Alan says his goal as someone in the middle of the research role, is to create community, to bring every voice to be heard
• Being connected to psychedelics in anyway, used to mean prosecution
  • There are still imbalances that need to be looked at
• The psychedelic renaissance is a chance to look at systemic issues
• We need to determine what our personal values are, and values of the whole community, and whether or not they are aligned

Final Thoughts

• Alan says his goal is to continue having a voice and allowing others’ voices to be heard in this space
• Rafael says his goal is to make this therapy more available to those who can benefit from it and not just for the privileged

Links

Source Research Foundation

5 MEO DMT Forum

About Rafael Lancelotta

Rafael is a graduate from the University of Wyoming in Mental Health Counseling. He has worked as a wilderness therapy guide with adolescents and young adults experiencing a wide range of emotional and psychological challenges. He has also worked as a counselor at the Behavioral Health Services unit of a psychiatric hospital treating severe and persistent mental illness and medically supervised drug and alcohol detox. He has worked on several research projects studying the epidemiology of 5-MeO-DMT use in the global population and is also the administrator of 5meodmt.org, an online forum dedicated to hosting community discussions on harm reduction, integration, and safe practices around 5-MeO-DMT use. He is interested in the use of psychedelics paired with therapy for increased resiliency, mental health, and openness. He believes that the counseling relationship is essential to deepen, enhance, and actualize the benefits of psychedelic-assisted therapy. He is passionate about finding ways to make psychedelic-assisted therapies available to all those who may benefit from it as well as helping to raise awareness as to responsible clinical applications of psychedelics/entheogens.

About Alan Kooi Davis

Dr. Alan K Davis is an Assistant Professor of Social Work at The Ohio State University and an Adjunct Assistant Professor in the Psychedelic Research Unit at Johns Hopkins University. Dr. Davis’s clinical experience includes working with people diagnosed with trauma-based psychological problems such as addiction, PTSD, depression, and anxiety. His clinical expertise includes providing evidenced-based treatments such as motivational interviewing, cognitive behavioral therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy, and psilocybin-assisted psychotherapy. Consistent with his clinical interests, his research interests and expertise focus on contributing to the knowledge of and ability to help those suffering with substance use and mental health problems, understanding how to improve clinical outcomes through examining new treatments, and developing ways to conceptualize substance use and mental health problems through a strengths-based approach.

In today’s episode, Joe interviews Mike Jay, Author of the book, Mescaline: A Global History of the First Psychedelic. In the show they discuss Mescaline’s origins and the history of Peyote use.

3 Key Points:

1. Mike Jay is a Cultural Historian and Author whose topics include science, medicine, drugs, madness, literature and radical politics.

2. Mike’s recent book, Mescaline, is a definitive history of mescaline that explores its mind-altering effects across cultures, from ancient America to western modernity.

3. Over time, Peyote has been used by spiritual seekers, by psychologists investigating the secrets of consciousness, artists exploring the creative process, and by psychiatrists.

Support the show

• Patreon
• Leave us a review on iTunes
• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
• Join our Facebook group - Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community.

Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

About Mike

• Mike Jay is a freelance writer, an author and cultural historian
• Mike has been interested in Mescaline for a really long time

Indigenous Use

• James Mooney is a crucial figure in the transition from indigenous use of peyote to the more current applications
• The New Deal made religions respected, protected under the First Amendment for freedom of worship

History

• There is a ton of literature before the 60’s on psychedelic use
• It was obvious that if people were interested in psychoactive drugs, they would take it themselves
• Back then, science was much more proactive than it is today, but it is becoming more popular again

Peyote Experience

• It's hard to find an ethical source of Peyote
• Mike says its unpleasant but warm and tingly and euphoric
• By 1970, Mescaline was this legendary substance, but it was hard to find on the streets unless you knew an underground chemist
• On the Erowid site, they have a bulletin that the DEA created about all of the street drug seizures
  He wrote a book 20 years ago called Emperors of Dreams
• 2CB is not as intense as Mescaline
• Mescaline is a phenethylamine
• It does not cross the blood brain barrier as easily. So you need to take more of it
  • It is a body and mind drug

Indigenous Use

• The Comanches were in a reservation in the Wichita mountains
• He was notified by the Comanches on some history
  • He went to meet with them, and they told him stories on the history
  • Peyote use originated inside of a Tipi
  • “The way that we see psychedelics in modern Western culture, is not the only way of thinking about it:” - Mike

Native American Church

• There is an interesting thing that happened between Mexican/South American Shamanic practice and Native American Church
  • In the ceremony, the facilitator is made to not ask like a priest, everyone is their own priest
  • It is a healing modality for everybody
• The very first peyote experiences in the west encouraged artists to make art
• Salvador Dali was apparently anti-drug use
  • The surrealist movement had a number of rules
• Huichol art is a very psychedelic inspired art

The plant

• Peyote is so fast growing, in some places it is growing naturally
• San Pedro is way more sustainable than Peyote
• There is a lot of demand for Peyote currently
• Joe says he thinks that Peyote is not scheduled in Canada

Accounts

• The western story is full of first-person experiencesIts based on the personal
  • experiences and visions
• In the indigenous accounts, there are very little stories on experience or personal matters, its more recording on the collective experience

Links

Website

Twitter

About Mike

Mike Jay is a leading specialist in the study of drugs across history and cultures. The author of Artificial Paradises, Emperors of Dreams, and The Atmosphere of Heaven, his critical writing on drugs has appeared in many publications, including The Guardian, The Telegraph, and The International Journal of Drug Policy. He sits on the editorial board of the addiction journal Drugs and Alcohol Today and on the board of the Transform Drug Policy Foundation. He lives in England.

In this episode, Joe interviews Dena Justice from the Ecstatic Collective. Dena and Joe talk about Neuro Linguistic Programming and how it is beneficial to use with non-ordinary states of consciousness.

3 Key Points:

1. NLP is Neuro Linguistic Programming. Dena Justice is a Lifestyle Design Strategist that uses NLP to help people create their dream, ecstatic life.
2. 93% of communication happens at the subconscious level. NLP training focuses on how we use communication tools to help people in non-ordinary states of consciousness.
3. Perception is Projection. Our belief of someone else, is a projection of ourselves onto them.

Support the show

• Patreon
• Leave us a review on iTunes
• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
• Join our Facebook group - Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community.

Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

About Dena

• Dena grew up with NLP in her life
• NLP is Neuro Linguistic Programming
• “You get to create your reality, what are you choosing consciously?” - Dena
• She became impacted by Tony Robbin’s events, and decided to teach NLP
• NLP is about language and communication and things that are happening subconsciously
  • 93% of communication happens at the unconscious level

Neuro Linguistic Programming

• Perception is projection
  • “If I have a belief about someone else, that is my projection of myself onto them” - Dena
• The big no-no in NLP is to say things like don't or not
  • Say it the way you intend it
  • What messages do you want to enforce when in an altered state? You want it to be positive
  • “What is someone creating in their reality based on their unconscious communication?” - Dena
• It's important to take NLP and combine it with non-ordinary states because they are more powerful together than the sum of them separately
  • The ‘aha’ moment happens because we have neural networks in every single cell in our body
  • Resistance is always a sign of a breakthrough
• Virginia Satir  is known for translating people’s representational systems
  • In the Hierarchy of Ideas, Virginia was all about ‘chunking down’
  • When someone says “I'm upset” then you ask “how specifically?”
• On the opposing side, Milton Erickson focuses on abstraction, chunking higher to get to trance
  • Dena uses the Milton model of hypnosis to bring people into trance states

NLP Training

• Dena offers NLP training that focuses on how we use communication tools to help people in non-ordinary states of consciousness
  • It's so important to understand the 93% of communication that is happening at an unconscious level
• Timeline therapy is a process that utilizes the unconscious mind to get rid of negative emotions such as anger, sadness and guilt
• Every part of her training concludes with NLP coaching
• The Milton model and hypnosis is really beneficial when focusing on its delivery specifically
  • Hypnosis is important because its using everyday words but with intention and volition to put people into a trance state
  • We reduce resistance in communication when we move up in abstraction

Links

Website

About Dena Justice

As a master manifester, Dena has created a beautiful life for herself. She been financially responsible since age 15 including putting herself through college, two masters degrees and purchasing her own home in the San Francisco Bay Area. She has made over $1M in her life through a fulfilling career as a facilitator, educator, trainer, mentor and coach working with thousands of people across the country. She loved her career, yet hit a point where she felt empty. Near the top of her career ladder, she was a classic case of a high performer and leader hitting burnout. She chose a powerful pivot out of her J-O-B and into her own business. Now, she helps other high performers who have hit burnout and are scared to admit they’ve hit a plateau or a wall. She helps them get the eff out of their own way and move to the next level to increase their impact so they feel fulfilled and inspired again, as well as helping them create more wealth and the relationships they want in their lives. She helps people experience new levels of success, increase/improve focus and performance, abolish FOMO, evolve communication skills, develop transformational leadership skills, create amazing relationships, increase financial abundance and live life on their own terms.

In this episode, Kyle sits down with Raquel Bennett to recap on the KRIYA Conference. Kyle attended the conference, which is to bring people together with dedication to understanding the better use of Ketamine.

3 Key Points:

1. The more recent KRIYA Conference was the last of its kind. The goal is to make information on ketamine more accessible to more people in the future.
2. At KRIYA Institute, they believe that there is not one right way to use ketamine, different patients are best served by different treatment strategies.
3. Intramuscular ketamine is usually 93% bioavailable, while nasal and lozenge based ketamine is usually only 40% bioavailable. The less variability the better when working with a powerful medicine for therapy.

Support the show

• Patreon
• Leave us a review on iTunes
• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
• Join our Facebook group - Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community.

Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

KRIYA

• KRIYA is an international conference focused on ketamine and its therapeutic potential
  • The goal of KRIYA is to get people of all different ketamine backgrounds in the same room
  • Different people benefit from different things, and different doses and methods matter
• There is a symbiotic relationship between therapeutic and spiritual practice of ketamine
• She wanted to create a place where researchers and clinicians could come together
  • This last conference was the last one
  • The conference is CME accredited, which means physicians can get units for their education
  • Raquel picks people from different backgrounds, therapists who use low dose ketamine for therapy, to those who do full blown spiritual work with ketamine
• Ketamine is a relational medicine - which is about having a relationship with the substance

Ketamine Therapy

• Ketamine Therapy Lessons
  • Wisdom Teaching
  • A Loving Relationship
  • The Medicine
• The medicine is adjunct to the entire process, it's not just about the ketamine, it's about the relationships, the wisdom teaching, etc. And each are powerful on their own, and even more powerful when all combined
  • When people are using ketamine in absence from the other components, people are not getting the full effect that they could
• “Ketamine when done correctly, when administered in the right setting, with the correct support, enhances resilience.” - Raquel
• Therapy is an important mechanism to teach coping skills needed in psychotherapy

Highlights of KRIYA

• When Raquel first started running this conference in 2015, the clinicians were afraid to even come, they were afraid to talk about Ketamine
  • This past year, there were hundreds of applicants and so much excitement around talking about ketamine
• In 2014, a whole bunch of psychiatrists stood up and said they have been using ketamine for their patients and it worked
• A doctor talked about combining meditation with ketamine to heal substance use disorder
  • When ketamine is offered in a structured context, its highly beneficial
• Another doctor talked about using ketamine to treat those who are acutely suicidal
  • People who are severely psychiatrically distressed benefit from ketamine treatment
• Another doctor talked about combining ketamine with EMDR to treat patients with PTSD

Bioavailability

• Raquel says she prefers intramuscular ketamine over lozenges
  • It's the cheapest way of doing it
  • Its super precise, you have a great control of the bioavailability of the ketamine to the patient
• With IM, 93% is bioavailable
• With nasal and lozenge ketamine, usually 40% makes it to the patient's brain, which is a huge range of variability when working with a powerful medicine

Progression

• Clinicians are on the fence for prescribing for at home use
• A doctor talked about 4 different tiers of ketamine experiences related to dosage
• Other doctors talked about measurement tools of pre and post experience ways to take data when administering ketamine to patients
• There is a lot of ketamine use outside of the medical context
  • The field is stuck in the question “Should ketamine be allowed to be used by people who aren't psychiatrically fragile?”
• Everything good that is going to come out of ketamine usage and assisted therapy, will come
  • It's a slow process, but it is all moving forward

Final Thoughts

• Raquel encourages people to are interested with using ketamine in therapy to get together regionally and learn from each other
• She is thinking about creating a video series, as well as a retreat for ketamine providers
• The KRIYA Conference is over, but the KRIYA Institute isn't going anywhere
  • She is looking at ways to get the information out faster and to more people, than to limit it just to conference attendees

Links

Website

About Raquel Bennett

Dr. Bennett is a Post-Doctoral Fellow in Clinical Psychology (PSB 94022544), working under the supervision of Dr. Bravo. Dr. Bennett primarily works with people who are experiencing severe depression, who are on the bipolar spectrum, or who are contemplating suicide. She has been studying the therapeutic properties of ketamine since she first encountered it in 2002. In addition to her clinical work, Dr. Bennett’s practice has evolved to include consultation services for medical professionals who wish to add ketamine services to their offices. She also lectures frequently about therapeutic ketamine. Dr. Bennett is the Founder of KRIYA Institute and the Organizer of the KRIYA Conferences.