In this episode, Kyle invites a guest interviewer, Hallie Rose of the Thought Room Podcast, to interview him on his recent experience at Soltara. In the show, they talk about Soltara, Kyle’s experience with the plant medicine, and important topics like privilege. 

3 Key Points:

1. Eastern attendees have a different integration need than Western attendees. In the West, attendees come back to more hustle and bustle, more time is needed for integration. Soltara does a really good job at providing that time for integration.  
2. With Psilocybin and other psychedelics, there is this one big door, you eat the mushrooms and open the door and get to experience it heavily. With Ayahuasca, there is a smaller doorway to penetrate through, you have to create a relationship with the medicine first.

3. If the people that really need the help can't even afford it, then how do we have mass healing? Peer support movements are a way forward in this issue.

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Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

About Hallie

• Hallie interviewed Kyle after his first 4 experiences with Ayahuasca
• Kyle's episode on The Thought Room Podcast about his Near Death Experience
• The Thought Room Podcast was inspired by Hallie’s first Ayahuasca experience
• She had typically pushed away anything psychedelic in nature, even alcohol before coming to Soltara as a guest
  • “A lot of the paradigms I had been working with were flipped upside down on their head” - Hallie
• The message that really spoke to her was to create a podcast
  • 2 ceremonies later she had some things come up about family and career, and again, the message ‘podcast’ came up again
  • When she went over her integration notes from her experience at Soltara, she kept coming back to the podcast thing
  • She describes her journal entry message as a black hole, a void
  • She felt like she was in rooms, some were bright and rainbow-y, and others were dark and lonely
  • The rooms were rooms for thoughts, thought rooms
• She owns the start up company Lunar Wild

Soltara

• Hallie mentions that she was blown away by the amount of effort that it takes to uphold a medicine center like Soltara
• Kyle says right from the start from arrival to the location, he was greeted with such warmth and it reminded him of his breathwork background
  • The ground rules that they laid down right at the start made him feel so safe
  • She said it's amazing to see the amount of healing that happens in that space
  • “When it comes to your own medicine work, your own journey work, only you know what's right for you” - Hallie
• Hallie is part of a mastermind group through Aubrey Marcus, the CEO of Onnit
  • She is connected to a bunch of people as a part of this group
  • She was introduced to Dan Cleland, a co-founder of Soltara, who invited her to come down
• Yes they had the traditional Shipibo aspects, but they also did a fantastic job of adding in the Western concepts to cater to the western needs
  • Hallie mentions that coming from the West, we have the need to integrate the experience in a different way than those coming from the East, and Soltara does a really good job with that kind of integration

The First Session

• Kyle said the tea was actually tasty
  • You drink a lot of it where you override the system to where the body wants to purge
• Kyle drank 5 cups of the tea over all the nights
• The purging is to clear the system out of toxins and clean it out energetically
• Soltara built in pre-ceremony sessions like yoga or meditation to help ease into the actual sessions
• Kyle said that the Ayahuasca experience was familiar
  • Everything felt very green behind his eyes
  • There was a serpent weaving in and out of his DNA
  • The experience felt so healing
  • Kyle didn't purge (vomit) but did do a little crying
  • He said he did not experience much anxiety
  • The serpent was healing him and stitching parts of himself back together
  • “There is something intelligent here working on very subtle levels” - Kyle
• The next two ceremonies were very gentle, some crying, going through family dynamics, but always in the background, there was that same serpent
• Kyle said the first 3 sessions felt really easy, compared to previous experiences with psychedelics
  • The spirit said to him “oh you think this was going to be easy, that you would just drink this and that I would show you all this stuff. Well we have to get to know each other first”
  • With Psilocybin, there is this one big door, you eat the mushrooms and open the door and get to experience it heavily, with Ayahuasca, there is a smaller doorway to penetrate through, you have to create a relationship with the medicine first

Final Ceremony

• It was during the full moon in Cancer and lunar eclipse, the energy was already intense
• For the 4th ceremony, Kyle was already feeling high energy, and did not want to go too strong, so he started with ¾ of a cup
  • Kyle felt like he was sober, the medicine told him to ask for a second dose
  • The facilitator gave Kyle ¼ of a cup more
  • That ¼ of a cup really blasted him off
• After the singing, he laid down and that's when things took off
  • All of a sudden, he saw himself back in the CAT scan machine (referring back to his NDE as a teen)
  • He always tells the story as blissful and beautiful, but this time was so different
  • He saw himself back in the CAT scan machine as a child, and was terrified, and he began shaking
  • He felt this pain in his pelvic area as he felt during his NDE
  • He was shivering and so cold, it brought him right back into that state
  • He was re-experiencing the fear in a new way during the ceremony
  • He went into his body and felt the scar tissue and felt that shake and stretch and kind of brought in some healing there
  • After his actual surgery/NDE, as he was healing he was always really afraid to move in certain ways in the fear that movement would re-open some of the healing wounds
• He got a clear way of looking at how the body holds trauma, especially after surgery
  • That trauma is tied to the way we hold ourselves, the way we walk and talk and in so many ways
  • This ceremony helped Kyle view somatic body work in such a new light
• The ceremony was not scary, he allowed his body to process the fear, but not attach to the fear and become fearful
• Yoga can also bring that out, stillness and vulnerability can bring up some body trauma and put you into that fight or flight response
• Even when you think you're done processing something, there are always more layers to dig into and see something differently to bring more clarity

Preparation

• Hallie said what she is learning with this medicine, is that she doesn't need to make anything happen, she needs to just let it happen
  • That feeling of relaxing things is scary because it means giving up control
  • It's a practice and its a lot easier said than done
• The most important part is the set (mindset), because the set is you
  • “Having your set figured out, when the going gets tough, you're safe still” - Hallie
• Kyle said that Aya always told him to wait, he didn't need to jump into trying it right away, he waited over 10 years to process his NDE trauma
  • Hallie says it's just like marriage, you can get married easily, but it's not always going to work out if you don't have the tools and the skill sets to maintain it
  • Ayahuasca is similar in needing the right tools and time to do it right
• The dieta and the prep itself is so hard
• People are turned off by the idea of doing something disciplined
  • These experiences can be so much different when we go through the process of giving something up
  • It's not to punish ourselves, it's to heal ourselves
  • “There is a whole other side of us, that opens up when we cut out some of the things that numb us” - Hallie
  • The dieta strips away the illusions, the plant medicines help us remember who we are

Hopi Creation Story

• The great creator said “I have a gift for the human beings, but I need to hide it somewhere until they are ready to find it”
  • It is “the gift of the knowing that they can create anything, they can create their own reality”
• The creator asked the earth where he should hide it
  • The eagle said he will bring it to the moon
  • The fish said he will bring it to the bottom of the sea
  • The buffalo said he will bring it to the edge of the plains
  • The creator said no to all of them, they will find it there
• So the great grandmother who lives in the breast of the earth said, put it inside of them
  • And the creator said “it is done”
• It brought Kyle back to his fourth ceremony, the Ayahuasca was a reminder that everything he needed was already inside of him

Privilege

• It's hard to tell people of their only legal options for healing, which most of them are leaving the country, which is not an option for some people
  • We are all worthy of finding relief of our suffering through psychedelics
• Is therapy only going to be for the rich and elite? There are so many people who really need it
• Yes, you can grow mushrooms, but then you're at risk of the law
• The system is so complex and we need a more humane way of moving forward in this field and offer experiences like this to the people that need it
• Therapy is a privilege
  • Most people that need therapy are in survival mode that don't have the privilege of access to therapy
• Peer support movements are a way forward in this issue
  • If the people that really need the help can't even afford it, then how do we have mass healing?
  • There are great healers out there that never became healers because they didn't have the privilege to
• Kyle says he escaped a lot of suicidal ideation after his near death experience, it took a lot of time to call earth his home
• “Just to wake up and be a part of this, even that is magical in itself” - Kyle
• “The stars come out every night, and we watch television” - Hallie

Authentic Self

• Hallie has recently had her 12th Ayahuasca experience
  • “I am no longer breathing, I am being breathed” - Hallie
• “Hatred does not exist, it is only a resistance to love” - Hallie
• Even being hard on ourselves is only a resistance to loving ourselves
  • Its love with nowhere to go
• People that have a lot of self hatred toward their bodies or themselves, the medicine always comes back to the self, it teaches people to love and take care of themselves
  • “You really can't love anything outside of yourself until you love yourself” - Hallie
  • Kyle says that the people who he looks up to (ex, Stan Grof), what if they never showed up for themselfves? What if they never stood up for what they believe in?

Links

$200 off coupon code for Soltara: THOUGHTROOM

Soltara Healing Center

Hallie's Instagram

Thought Room Podcast 

About Hallie

In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview previous guest of the show, Daniel Greig. In the show, he goes in depth into the meaning of enlightenment and previews the new book he is writing with Dr. John Vervaeke, The Cognitive Continuum.

3 Key Points:

1. Insight, flow and mystical experiences are all facets of working toward enlightenment.
2. Enlightenment is really a fundamental grip on reality. It's about maintaining a relationship with the transcendent, it's not about just constantly escaping this body life.
3. The mystical experience is a glimpse at consciousness. The most important part of having a mystical (psychedelic) experience is coming back into our bodies and developing better relationships with ourselves, others and the world.

Support the show

• Patreon
• Leave us a review on iTunes
• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
• Join our Facebook group - Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community.

Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

The Cognitive Continuum

• There will be a crowdfunding campaign launched for the book
• The book will be a combination of art and science
• He is writing it with Dr. John Vervaeke
  • Youtube - Awakening for the Meaning Crisis
• The core of cognitive continuum is insight
• There is also the flow state
• There are also mystical states
• Insight, flow and mystical experiences all have something to do with enlightenment
  • If we can train people on how to access this cognitive continuum, they can become enlightened

Enlightenment

• It is important to see the truth
  • “How can we take our natural ability to attach to things, and learn to step back and care about the greater good?” - Daniel
• Cognitive flexibility is important to understand the needs of the greater collective
  • "Enlightenment means to apprehend truth and act in relation to truth” - Daniel
• Mind does not equal brain

Gut Feeling

• EGG - electro gastro grams
• There is a singular resting state network between the brain and the stomach
  • You're never really able to access this network, but when we have ‘gut feelings’ it's typically coming from neurons in your stomach
• Being grounded in those sensations of the stomach is a huge part of problem solving and guidance in truths
• We need to get back to ‘feeling’ something as actually meaning something

Mystical Experience

• Enlightenment is really a fundamental grip on reality
• It's about maintaining a relationship with the transcendent, it's not about just constantly escaping this body life
• Daniel uses a lot of Roberto Unger’s theories in his new book
• There is the absolute reality and illusory reality
• The mystical experience is a glimpse at consciousness
  • The most important part of having a mystical experience is the coming back into our bodies, having better relationships with ourselves and others
• Psychedelics don't do anything by just sitting there, they take a perceiver to matter and make a difference
  • It's the person, the body, that really holds the power to embodiment

Psychedelics and Enlightenment

• People say that psychedelics are a shortcut to enlightenment
  • Daniel says that psychedelics can help take people out of depression style states
  • A mystical experience can help you, but you're going to hit a plateau if you don't integrate and interpret these experiences
• For those practicing a lot of psychedelic work, they should balance with body work like yoga
  • There needs to be a balance in all practices in order to keep escalating toward enlightenment

Links

Website 

About Daniel Greig

Daniel is an educator, organizer and artist living in Toronto. He studied Cognitive Science and Philosophy at the University of Toronto, specializing in wisdom, consciousness, and spiritual belief and experience. In 2015, he founded the Mapping the Mind conference that occurs annually in Toronto, which raises much needed funds for psychedelic research. Daniel regularly host lectures and workshops, on topics in cognitive science. He is currently writing a book with Dr. John Vervaeke on the science of enlightenment, which will be published in 2020. When not contemplating the realm of the intellect, Daniel delves in the sonic perturbations of music, writing and producing progressive metal.

In this episode, Kyle and Joe interview Chris Bache, author of LSD and the Mind of the Universe. Chris went through 73 high dose LSD sessions and talks about his experience in the show.

3 Key Points:

1. Chris went through 73 high dose LSD sessions, but he says that pushing the edge of high dose and high frequency use brought on increasingly intense difficulties. He does not recommend high dose sessions like he did.
2. The mind of the universe is where someone goes when one completely dissolves.
3. In the show, they discuss psychedelic therapy and the debate on whether or not therapists should have to have psychedelic experience to do the therapy. Chris believes that the level of experience a therapist has had will impact the type of support they will be able to give.

Support the show

• Patreon
• Leave us a review on iTunes
• Share us with your friends – favorite podcast, etc
• Join our Facebook group - Psychedelics Today group – Find the others and create community.

Navigating Psychedelics

Show Notes

Psychedelic Interest

• It was at the time Chris had just finished grad school and was looking where to take his research as a university professor
• He was introduced to the work of Stan Grof, and his book Realms of the Human Unconscious: Observations from LSD Research (Condor Books)
• He was the professor of Religious Studies, sticking to his traditional life
• He knew there would come a time for him to share his experiences with a larger audience
• Chris says he's always been locked into his body and his physical experience
  • He had no background in psychedelic states of consciousness

Protocol

• He said you're always working with a sitter and same context/setting
• As the dosage increased, he began creating a more intense music playlist
  • Chris thinks music is very important for psychedelic sessions
• Chris does not recommend working with high doses
• “When you're working with opening consciousness that radically, music has a tremendous effect, it has an amplifying effect by 5 or 10x than doing it without music” - Chris
• Chris said he has experienced all the common layers of the psychedelic unconscious that's talked about

Consciousness Levels

• Chris experienced 4 different death/rebirths
• Chris differentiated 5 levels of the universe
  • The first is at the personal mind, where an ego death happens
  • The second takes places at the collective mind, about species
  • The third level is an archetypal mind, the high subtle mind, moving beyond the species existence
  • The fourth level is causal mind, causal oneness, profound states of non-dual reality
  • The last is Diamond Luminosity, its absolute clarity, pureness

Psychedelic Therapy

• Chris says that there is a certain level of support that one needs to truly let go of themselves and let go to the experience
• He says that he thinks the level of experience will impact the type of support a therapist will be able to give

Subtle Level

• The mind of the universe is where someone goes when one completely dissolves
• Pushing the edge of high dose, high frequency use brought on increasingly intense difficulties
• Chris says he was very secret about his psychedelic use, his students didn't know about it
  • But he said after he had gone deep and touched these different levels of consciousness, his students became alive
  • The deeper he went in his own work, the more it touched the students at a deeper level

Potency

• Chris thinks that LSD is a little cleaner than other psychedelics
  • His basic sense is that psilocybin tends to be less evocative, disruptive
  • Ayahuasca is more disruptive in opening up to deeper levels
  • LSD is the most disruptive in opening people up to really deep levels of consciousness
  • With LSD is was less about his personal experience, and more about the collective unconscious experience

Realizations

• With one of his experiences, he had seen everything in his whole life all at once
• He then entered into archetypal experiences, the platonic domain beyond the time-space reality
• The beings he ‘met’ were as large as universes, responsible for creating time and space
• He went into ‘deep time’, different magnitudes of time experiences in a broader frame of reference (where we are in the history of time, what our future looks like)
• He reached that diamond luminosity level only 4 times out of all of his LSD sessions
• “If we keep this up, sooner or later, the totality of this consciousness is going to wake up” - Chris
• “We are moving toward a collective wake up, it's not a personal experience, it's a collective experience. An evolution of our species.” -Chris
• If Chris has one tip, is to let go of our fear of death, when we die, we go back home
• After so many sessions, and not taking the time to stop to integrate, after years, his body was screaming for community, and he felt this deep existential sadness and felt as if he was just waiting to die
  • It took 10 years to integrate his deep exploration, and to finally feel okay and comfortable again in his body suit and in this life
• The universe is an infinite ocean of possibilities, we will never reach the end
• “The collective psyche is being cosmically stimulated by the trauma that we are entering into” -Chris

Links

Articles 

LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven

Chrisbache.com - future website

About Chris

Christopher M. Bache is professor in the Department of Philosophy and Religious Studies at Youngstown State University where he taught for 33 years. He is also adjunct faculty at the California Institute of Integral Studies and a Fellow at the Institute of Noetic Sciences. An award-winning teacher, Chris’ work explores the philosophical implications of non-ordinary states of consciousness, especially psychedelic states. Chris has written three books translated into six languages: Lifecycles - a study of reincarnation in light of contemporary consciousness research; Dark Night, Early Dawn - a pioneering work in psychedelic philosophy and collective consciousness; and The Living Classroom, an exploration of teaching and collective fields of consciousness. His new book is Diamonds from Heaven ~ LSD and the Mind of the Universe (2019).